Upcoming changes to Market Place

I was expecting to see a number of comments on the announcement that V8 extensions and themes plus V9 purchases older than 12 months are to go.
Firstly I have 276 extensions/themes in my account, some with multiple licenses. There is generally no way to determine which version they are for without clicking on them. There has also been no way to remove the version 5.6 or obsolete items.
Secondly I have purchased 5 pack licenses for some V9 items that are not all used and could be older than 12 months. I have also paid for developers to update extensions to V9 and have unlimited licenses for these.
Thirdly I have built a large number of sites since I first discovered Concrete over twelve years ago. While I encourage clients to get regular updates, I cant force this. There are many reasons why they are not updated. The site is working fine and they don’t want to pay for updates. The theme used has not been updated to V9 or even V8. They have specific extensions and or functionality that has not yet been migrated to V9. Occasionally these clients will request/require additional functionality.
What will happen to licenses for items that are currently V9 and V8 compatible?
We will loose the ability to browse V8 extensions and offer to pay for V9 development.
While I strongly support the separation of the V9 market place, the older extensions and themes will be missed. The 12 month cut off will also I believe penalize many long term Concrete CMS developers/site builders given that V9 was first released well be before the proposed cut off date and some V8 extensions have continued with the same licenses to V9.

Colin

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Yeah I’m a little bit concerned about V8 not being supported in the new marketplace.

From a coding point of view, there’s not huge differences between V8 and V9 add-ons, and normally both can be supported in the same package.

Even just the last week I’ve had enquiries along the lines of ‘I love this add-on, but can it also support V8?’.

So I suspect there are many V8 sites out there still in use, where people want to install or update add-ons.

I appreciate that V8 is end-of-life and an ideal world site should be updated to V9 - but it’s just not that simple. Sometimes there are reasons why sites get stuck on a major version.

3 Likes

I agree with this. It seems a little premature to remove all access to V8 add-ons. We still have a lot of sites running V8 for various reasons. It’s useful to be able to get to the add-on page sometimes to remind yourself how some of the more complex add-ons we’ve bought in the past work.

It’s also not a huge amount of dev work for an add-on to be upgraded to run on V9 and useful sometimes to browse older add-ons for ideas. I can understand stopping future sales but preventing us from downloading extensions we’ve already purchased in the past seems a bit wrong.

4 Likes

There are far more v8 sites then v9

What happens if you have a v8 add-on that was abandoned like most installed on your site and you mistakenly delete it thinking it was a different add-on?

Now your site is no longer accessible due to errors.

Next you visit concretecms.org to download it only to find out its also been deleted from there. Now what do you do?

V8 add-ons being removed from the marketplace is one thing. v8 add-ons being completely removed from concretecms.org is a completely different story.

+1 for keeping v8 add-ons available for download. It is an absolute must.

1 Like

If you know the URL of any v8 addon, you can find its marketplace page on the wayback machine. Not as convenient as the marketplace pages, but it does provide a way round getting to the documentation for addons otherwise abandoned when the old marketplace closes.

For my own addons I provide documentation on my support site at c5Magic.co.uk . Many other developers who are actively supporting their addons and themes provide similar.

As a developer, I find testing addon and theme updates for v8 has become a big overhead for no return. Hence I am phasing out v8 support for my own addons except where specifically requested. That is not to say they won’t continue to work with v8, just that I won’t be testing it.

On a larger scale, similar economics are behind the shutdown of the v8 marketplace. The overhead of maintaining it, even in its current clanking along state, is way out of proportion to the actual return. Its not economically justified.

For those with v9 licences to my addons in the old marketplace that are > 12 months old, so not automatically moved to the new marketplace,

[EDIT] AS @frz has offered below

Migrate ALL licenses that are v9 related.
If it’s 9 months or more recent, set the expiration date to that date this/next year.

That fulfils my objective of offering all my customers a migrated license with a simpler and global migration, so I have removed my offer to manually provide such. [/EDIT]

Having been involved in testing and reviewing, I am very much looking forward to the new marketplace. There are issues that I hope @frz & co can resolve before it goes live and perhaps the folks in Portland are more optimistic about that than I am, but the new marketplace platform is definitely heading in the right direction and, being based on an up-to-date CMS core, should provide an infrastructure for progressing beyond the pending MVP.

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We’re eager to make this as painless as possible for everyone. I’m hearing a few different concerns here:

  1. I’ve purchased licenses I haven’t used yet.
  2. Sites running v8 are going to have a less desirable experience.
  3. There’s information about older add-ons that will be missed.

We’re not going to leave the old marketplace up for the public. Our goal is to make this easy as possible for everyone. Having two marketplaces is going to be wildly confusing. I can’t imagine the canned responses my team will have to write if we’re honestly expecting people to be able to navigate one marketplace for old stuff and a new marketplace for v9 stuff.

We’re not really committed to making v8 user experience delightful at this point. We’ve been talking about critical security updates only for a long time. There are plenty of old concrete sites from every version still out there. I certainly don’t want to brick any of them. Sure, I agree there are folks running v8 sites that cant or wont upgrade for fair reasons, but it shouldn’t be news to them at this point that they’re not on the latest and greatest. To be clear, we’re not actively doing anything that should impact those sites here. Developers are not releasing masses of updates for v8 extensions at this point anyway, so the idea that someone is in their v8 site hitting update on extensions and getting results today is pretty rare at all. The fact that these legacy sites no longer will connect to a marketplace feels reasonable and non-destructive. The scenario of someone being such an active manager of their v8 site that they would uninstall an extension, to then realize they need to reinstall it, only to be frustrated that we no longer have a copy of that extension for them here feels like we’re solidly into a very hypothetical scenario. If that actually happens, I’d suggest restoring from a backup.

To be clear, we never promised we’d do any of this. When we built the original marketplace a decade and a half ago SaaS was still pretty new and the expectation with software was you pay, you get a copy, you get a bit of support, you go live your life. We promised 30 days of support in our refund policy (not even the license) and we asked developers to provide 90 days of support in reality. That’s it. The fact that someone bought an image gallery in 2014 for $20 and has happily been getting updates automatically installed for no additional fee for a decade is frankly a miracle and a gift, it was never a must. The fact that folks like John have been making these updates without compensation for literally years is gracious, and unsustainable. It’s part of the reason we don’t see more high quality themes and the like in our marketplace.

As I see it… I have bought every major version of ScreenFlow Pro for a decade. It costs around $150 per major version. When I give them my old serial number, I might get a discount on the next year’s license - but that’s it. There’s no account history on their site where I can download every copy I’ve ever purchased if I lose that zip file. If I happened to keep a copy in my local downloads directory, that’s cool - it’ll still work, but it’s not Telestream’s job to be my software pantry. They sold me a copy, I bought it, that copy is mine, and we move on.

Similarly, I purchased Photoshop version 2.5 in 1992 for about $1000. Sadly, if I want Photoshop today, I get to spend $50/mo on it. I can’t fire up a windows 3.1 vm, login to adobe.com, download some archive from them and key in my serial number. If I had that box still running in the corner, it’d work, but it’s not Adobe’s job to keep it working forever just because I spend a grand on this 30 years ago.

We’re selling extensions for an open source product that average around $30 a pop. I’m not sure we can realistically be held to a higher standard than Telestream or Adobe here. Maybe I’m missing something?

So, that said, some thoughts that may help:

  1. Get stuff now. We’re being pretty loud about this for a reason. If you’ve purchased a 5 pack of some v8 theme and you’ve only used 3 of them, and those remaining two licenses are valuable to you, go download the zip from your license history and keep that copy for local install.

  2. We’re taking it offline from the public, but we’re not going to delete the marketplace itself; we’ll have access. If there’s a scenario we’re not seeing now (I’m sure there are many) and there’s an easy way we can make something right, we’ll be able to login as root or login as your user, verify what’s going on, and manually pull out a package to keep things on track. Feel free to use the contact form and we’ll handle things as they actually emerge on a one off basis.

  3. We can extend the reach of our v9 migration. We were just going to migrate licenses purchased in the last 12 months, but instead of that we can:

Migrate ALL licenses that are v9 related.
If it’s 9 months or more recent, set the expiration date to that date this/next year.
If it’s 9 months or older, set the expiration date for 90 days in the future.

That makes it easier for folks and it’s not a huge change for the import routines we’ve built, so happy to do things that way if it helps.

Again, we’re trying to move forward here with a stack we can actually support and a ecosystem that drives growth for the project. Part of that (by definition) means leaving some old approaches behind and embracing new stuff. I certainly want everyone to have as smooth as experience with Concrete as possible. Please do let me know what I’m missing here.

2 Likes

I am glad to see this has been considered. I don’t think it is fair to compare Telestream or Photoshop to Concrete CMS. The latter is very much community driven with the end user able to modify the product. We need to support this community to allow it to continue to grow. The members/users have varying levels of skill and not all are capable of updating sites to the next major version.
I also noted that we can download Concrete versions back to V5.0 from 2008?

Personally I regularly Purchase add ons or themes to give them a try out and not all get utilised on the project they were purchased for. I have never requested a refund and was happy to keep the licences for future use. If I find a project to use them I will then assign them and in many cases purchase an additional license.

I will go through all 276 items I have in my account and download all relevant and unused items.
I will miss the ability to enhance existing V8 sites though and browse older addons to see if they are going to be updated for V9.

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Is it possible to remove the v8 marketplace but still leave the add-ons available for download the same way they are offered for download now? Why cant /profile/orders/ stay? Didn’t you do this with the v5 and v7 marketplace?

What happens to all the v8 sites that are attached to project pages that have licenses for v8 products attached to them?

There are so many reasons these files need to remain available for download at least for a while.

This really feels like concrete cms is starting all over again completely deleting its past. Forums, docs, add-ons, themes, everything… :frowning:

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We manually moved every v9 extension to the new marketplace.
We rewrote product listings.
We made new thumbnails.
We spent hundreds of hours on content curating the new marketplace buildout.
It’s all new code and data from the ground up.

We simply couldn’t justify the cost of trying to move extensions that were written a decade ago over for a version of our software that was initially released in 2016.

When we’ve built new systems in the past few years and we were able to safely contain and keep the past, we have. The new docs are at a new URL, we’ve left the old docs. We even cross linked them with a version drop down. The old forums can still be found at a static archive. I believe we’ve shown we’ll go out of our way to protect history where we can.

In this case, it was impractical to move the old products, and we couldn’t think of a graceful & safe way to keep the old marketplace around. It’ll be confusing for new customers to have two, and it was literally running on Concrete 5.5.2.2a. It’s a testament to the platform it that it was as stable as it was for as long as it was, but it must go.

That said, I’ve got it wrapped up behind a VPN and if you (or anyone else reading this) thinks I owe them some license they need for something they once bought, please don’t hesitate to ask and I’ll see what I can do to make it right.

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New Marketplace looks real nice. Great work!

Hi,

I Love the new market place it is really cool, I like the layout and the general feel.

Just a note: I had credit on the old market place, is that now just all gone?

It wasn’t much but just asking.

@frz I’ve been meaning to ask about account balances as well. Will they be applied to our stripe, or should we shoot you an address to snail mail it to us??

stripe handles payouts magically on its own, so no more waiting on us or suffering through paypal. That’s why you had to connect your stripe account.

Nope, we’ll issue payouts one last time.

@frz This is what I was speaking about. The $ that was lingering in my account with the old MP. It was always a make and spend game, so I’ve never cashed out. Let me know what you’d need from me and I can shoot you an email…

I have just checked my account and I have no recent purchases and or licenses.
My last purchase was in April so I assume it should be there.
Am I missing something here?
I also noted that when you clink on link “standard market place license” it does not take you to the license, but just stays on the product page.
Edit: I found the link in the market place announcement to see licenses, however I paid to get an add on migrated to V9 and was granted 999 licenses so I now have this in my licenses 999 times.
The down load links are not work in this list.

Confirmed, the download link just redirects back to the downloads page.

Try checking out this URL:
https://market.concretecms.com/account/licenses

we’re adding an easy way to get there from your my account page asap.

Which is great but none of the download links work

Thanks for the reply, and yes none of the links work as confirmed by others.
There needs to be a way to sort the multiple license issue. 990 instances of unused licenses is just not workable.
How do we view the market place license given that the link on the product pages just takes you to the product?